I'll Bet You're Sinning
I just took a friend of mine to the airport. He is one of those important businessmen who have to travel to exotic locations and stay in swanky hotels. His destination this time is Rhode Island (exotic?) and his swanky hotel this time turns out to be a casino.On the drive to the airport, the subject of gambling came up, and my friend asked me if I had heard any good biblical arguments against gambling. We're not talking about gambling in excess, or as an obsession of any sort, just recreational gambling. I told him that I had only heard the typical fundamentalist arguments (which, by the way, go double for drinking and smoking).
"If you gamble a little, but you have a friend with a gambling problem who finds out about it, you might cause him to stumble." To which I always like to reply "What if you have sex with your wife, and your wife gets pregnant, and you have a friend who has a problem with sex and lust, and he finds out that you've been having sex (because your wife's tummy is growing), and you cause your friend to stumble?"
Or I've heard, "It's just a waste of money in any amount. All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable. It's poor stewardship." Okay, well so is ice cream, starbucks, and baseball games.
The other one I could think of was "If you gamble, you are supporting evil people who are trying to ruin poor peoples' lives by sucking them dry." But I think my reply to that would be "I suppose you're right. So when are you planning to stop using credit cards, watching television and movies, shopping at Target, or buying anything from anyone who has mass-marketed their product?"
So since my buddy asked me the question, and I couldn't answer it, I pose it to you: Are there any good biblical arguments against gambling?
posted by DrewDog | 2:01 PM
15 Comments:
As with anything, ask What is the point, the telos, the goal. What are you trying to accomplish by gambling? Most people are trying to get something for nothing..
Dorothy Sayers (Inklings...Bird and Baby...ah ah) once said that when people say they want their money to work for them really mean that they dont want to work.
I admit I am not tempted (much) to gamble nor am I entertained by it, but if a person can, in good conscience, say that he by gambling is being a good steward of what God has given him, using his money in they way it should be used...then by all means I say put twenty on the trifecta at the third race in Saratoga.
I agree. I am not entertained in the least by gambling. Honestly, I'd rather be at a ball game. I know I won't make any money, but I also know that I'll see a ball game.
All good points. (though I do have serious doubts about the 'important businessman' stuff)
Dorothy seems to be implying that only lazy people make investments (business, real estate, interest bearing accounts). Is that correct?
"Gambling" is not a monolithic category. That is there are games such as craps, keno, lotteries, and slots which are based completely on random chance, and no amount of skill or knowledge can improve one's odds of winning. Then there are games such as poker, blackjack, and sports betting where strategy, study, and experience can improve the chances of winning over the long term.
Some people (MIT Blackjack Team/Top Poker Players) have demonstrated that it is possible to consistently win at certain wagering games. For them, I think gambling is good stewardship. Others should stay away.
Likewise, many fund managers and investors can make money in the stock market consistenly. Others are better off picking the trifecta. So I think education, skill, and experience determine the stewardship issue.
Is gambling entertaining like a ball game, movie, or theme park? I guess I'll have to do some firsthand research and get back to you.
Telos, people....what is the telos? WHy do people gamble? I think there are two (main) reasons that I can see: 1.)for entertainment, 2.) to take risk in order to make more money than they had before.
The second one is the most troubling. Does gambling, or investing for that matter, reveal a lack of contentment? Do I not accept God's provision? Is money and how I can make more of it the primary concern?
These are biblical issues. The NT is clear on things like contentment, love of money, and things like that.
Another issue I have been thinking about is that fact that gambling doesnt create anything. No goods or services are exchanged. Work and acceptable forms of exchange usually have a win/win effect. You get my product and are happy with it. I get your money and am happy that I sold you the product. Gambling depends on somebody loosing. The money you win at gambling is taken from someone who wasnt as smart/lucky as you. Are any of these points relevent?
I suppose that as long as the point is entertainment, it is still a win/win situation. As long as I know that the money I lose or win is the "price" of admission, I am still recieving the product of entertainment.
If, however, we assume that the primary point is to make money, I think your point is valid.
What do you think, Vijay?
Eventually entertainment raises issues becuase you have to ask to whom are you giving the money. I am sorry to say that gambling compells you to say that you are giving your money to moneyhungry thugs who prey on the poor and desperate. (Last time I checked, a womens missionary union wasnt running Caesar's Palace.)
To say that this is comparable to TV or sports or other venues into which people pour their money is to miss the notion of the transaction and what is gained.
It is important to ask: do I want these people to have my money? Perhaps not just gambling but a notion of appropriate entertainment is necessary to completely answer the question.
Interesting, and yet I can't help but believe that most if not all big corporations have the exact same goal as the Caesar'a Palace thugs: get people's money at all costs.
"How can we make people think that they need our product when they don't?"
"How can we get people to transfer their balances to us, so we can make a ton of interest off that balance for years to come, and get them to keep spending?"
"How can we have a squeaky-clean image, while remaining moneyhungry thugs?"
What do you think?
"How can we make people think that they need our product when they don't?" That's the corporate phylosophy. It's too bad that Christians are too afraid to begin their own cultures.I think many are afraid because they will be accused of being a cult. I do believe, though, that there will come a day when we will have to pull out of the modern culture and begin fresh. Does anyone know of a Reformed-Amish community I can join?? Do you think they would let me bring my laptop??
Wow - Good discussion here. I didn't know so many were interested in this topic.
I agree with DrewDog's analysis of the gambling as a "product." I also think anonymous made two points that appear to be the underlying assumptions in this discussion:
1) "Does gambling, or investing for that matter, reveal a lack of contentment? Do I not accept God's provision? Is money and how I can make more of it the primary concern?"
I'm afraid I don't understand this. Taking risk to make money is what the farmer does every year. Also the parable of the talents (though illustrating a spiritual point) validates that growing the value of money is not an evil thing. Being in love with money is bad, but investing wisely seems to be good stewardship.
2) "Perhaps not just gambling but a notion of appropriate entertainment is necessary to completely answer the question."
I agree. If certain entertainment is ok and others are not, we need to discuss the criteria for making the distinction and if we can consistently apply the criteria to other forms of entertainment.
My research on this topic has been extremely enlightening (maybe even opinion changing), and I'll post some observations in the near future.
2 bad reductios...or is it reductiones... either way it makes a great band name:
1. A farmer doesnt risk in the same way as a gambler. A farmer primarily labors, there just happens to be a part that is out of his control...but the risk is secondary
2. I dont think that more money at any cost is the point of the talent parable.
A different reductio: Casinos exist not just to make money but to take money. That is how they operate. Perhaps a Christian may find a way to beat the odds consistently at a game..but casinos will subseqently modify the game so they dont loose. The MIT blackjack experiment (another good band name) led to casinos using multiple decks. But would a Christian be justified in saying, "I am so accomplished at gambling, I will open my own casino?" To me, it seems that from this perspective gambling has a predatory nature to it which speaks against profitable participation.
I didn't think they were that bad :) ...Let me try to clarify.
1) I was addressing the point that investing or taking any risk to make money is bad. Certainly the level of risk is different from farming to investing or casino games, but I think we agree that all are taking a chance on the future to make a profit.
2) I'm not saying that money should be made at any (i.e. dishonest) cost. I was just arguing against the idea that investing money for a profit is wrong because it must stem from laziness or greed.
I am still not clear on the "casinos take money" argument. What business is structured purely in their customer's advantage? What business doesn't try to take in more money from the customer than it gives back to them? We call those charities.
Can someone profitably participate in casino gaming? Anonymous is correct - for the most part, no. The deck is stacked against the player. But if the player is being entertained and limiting their losses, the casino has provided its service and the customer is getting what they pay for. (even if they are paying for something stupid)
Would that be considered gambling, though? Spending $100 on an evening of entertainment and food is common, but to do it consistently would be sinful. But, also, I'm not sure that being served by half-naked woman is a very godly thing to participate in. When all is said and done, the casinos are probably best left alone. It's really a sleazy way to be entertained. Maaaybe, it could be okay if the Christian were some sort of evangelist, but everyone likes to use that excuse to participate in worldliness. I would also completely oppose a Christian working in a casino, considering that there are many jobs out there that serve a much more godly cause, and actually contribute to the better of society. I don't have time to dig the quote out right now, but Calvin writes that there is professions that we should avoid and professions that we should pursue. He says that if it betters society, then it is good, if not, then it is not good to pursue. How do we know which is good and which is not? By studying God's Law and becoming wise to apply it to our culture.
Vijay just posted his first hand experience at a big casino. I think it's worth a read.
http://swamidasssez.blogspot.com
Thanks for the plug. I was just about to add the link here.
Post a Comment
<< Home