Anybody but Barry
Now that the inevitable has happened, allow me to express my profound apathy about Bond's new record. One of baseball's greatest records has been broken and I don’t care….well…I guess I care but I am not excited. Though his name will be listed above theirs on the list, in my opinion he has not eclipsed Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, or even his godfather Willie Mays. In celebration of this, allow me to give my list of people I would rather see break the record:- Ken Griffey, Jr. – Man I wish he had stayed healthy. Remember he was only one of 2 (or three I cant remember) active players selected to the Baseball All-20th Century Team.
- Albert Pujols – The dude can hit…and he is a great guy. If he can stay healthy, he will be the homerun king that my grandkids remember.
- Alex Rodriguez – I don’t dislike the guy as much as I probably should. Is it because Yankee fans hate him, so that makes him okay in my book? Probably its because he stands the best shot of breaking Barry's record (in fact obliterating it if you do the math).
- Mark McGuire – Hey, if I have to pick a juice-head, I would rather it be someone the fans love and who looked like he enjoyed the game. Did I mention that he used to play for the A's?
- Ryan Howard – the long-shot. He is really young but from what I can tell the guy can flat hit and is a great guy. I gained respect for him when even though he wasn’t voted to the All-Star game this last year, he still elected to attended the HR derby to defend his crown. The fans wanted to see him, so he showed up…it stark contrast to the local boy who was a no-show.
- Anybody else -- I am serious. I am hardpressed to think of a person I wouldn't rather take Barry's place.
I know this blog is normally about other stuff, but I suspect the Bird and Babe has a little Sports Pub in her blood.
Any comments?
posted by steve | 8:06 AM
13 Comments:
man i couldn't agree with you more. I hope rodriguez does obliterate bonds' record.
Ditto, Steve and Paul.
At this point, A-Rod stands the best chance of totally eclipsing the juice monkey's record. At 32 years of age and over 500 HR's already, nothing but an injury stands in his way.
Let's hope that it happens sooner than later. I want Bonds dethroned and marginalized asap.
And by the way, why hasn't Aaron Southwick commented yet??
I keep reminding myself of a few things:
1) Barry Bonds used steroids
2) Barry Bonds is a hall of fame baseball player (without the use of steroids)
3) Barry Bonds broke the all time home run record because of both 1) and 2)
I think some people will make the mistake of thinking:
1) Barry Bonds used steroids
2) Barry Bonds is a hall of fame baseball player
3) Therefore, everyone who uses steroids will be hall of fame baseball players.
Barry broke the home run record because he is a phenomenal baseball player and he used steroids. We will never be able to avoid this simply because Barry Bonds used steroids. Thus, in a sense, the record is tainted.
Based upon the total # of home runs Barry hit pre-steroids (Come on! The evidence is overwhelming...just spend a few months in a gym:), I do not think that Barry would have broken the record if he did not use steroids. Thus, I agree with Steve, Paul and Drew. I cannot wait until someone else, who is clean of steroid use, absolutely shatters Bonds' record.
Nevertheless, I still think Barry deserves to be in the Hall of Fame--and Pete Rose too!
btw, I am looking forward to explaining the "steroid era" to Dylan in much the same way that my father explained to me why Pete Rose is not in the hall of fame!
One more thing...Thomas Pelosi is a fun guy to talk about this with! It is fun to watch him get all riled up! Ahh...I miss T.P. :(
I have a question. What exactly do steroids do for the user? I know there are different types, but I was under the impression that you had to continue using them for the effect to continue. I'm sure Barry is not continuing to use any substance now, and yet his home run production is still incredible. So I guess my understanding is wrong.
I'm pretty sure steroids don't do anything for eyesight, hand-eye coordination, and timing - all of which are required to be a good hitter.
Also, there seems to be this idea that prior to 2001 Barry was pretty good, and then he suddenly became amazing, therefore he did something unnatural.
In sports, many times things will "click" for a player at a certain time and they go from great to incredible. I think of Roger Federer in this regard. Prior to 2004 he was very good. Post 2004, he is probably the greatest ever. Much of it was a mental change. So, I don't find the "He was good before and now he's great" argument to be very compelling.
It would be interesting to see some data comparing bat speed, reaction time, etc of a steroid user and non-user.
Anyway, his record is tainted as it should be. But if a non-steroid user beats him, what does that tell us about the usefulness of steroids?
Vijay,
As I said before--Barry Bonds is a Hall of Fame baseball player (without steroids). However, I would like to see data comparing strength and endurance between a steroid user and a non-steroid user. This, I think, is where Barry was catapulted around the year 2000.
Was your last question meant to be a rhetorical question?
Can someone break the all time home run record without the use of steroids?--Absolutely!
Can someone break the all time home run record with the use of steroids?--Absolutely! (of course steroids are useful)
This is the conundrum we face with Barry, and all other steroid users. It can be done naturally, but, unfortunately, we will never know whether or not BARRY could have done it.
This, I think, is one reason why cheating is wrong.
Can someone pass a test without stealing and using the answer guide?--Absolutely!
Can someone pass a test by stealing and using the answer guide?--Absolutely!
This is the conundrum a teacher faces whenever he catches the student who stole and used the answer guide....
Barry was a great ball-player who would have hit alot of homeruns anyway. Steroids probably turned several line-drives and deep flyballs into homeruns....and increased his longevity. Not scientific but I would argue it increased his total HR by at leat 10%.
If you want to see what Bonds would be without steroids...see Ken Griffey. Great Hitter, Hall of Famer, plagued by inury.
In addition to steroids, I think Bonds is unlikeable...entitled...a jerk. I think that predated steroids.
Aaron,
I wasn't arguing with you, just asking for information about the benefit that players get from steroids. It really isn't clear to me. To use a stupid example, if I use steroids, it isn't going to make me a better programmer. If I take steroids, I'm not going to become a pro tennis player either, but it might make me a little faster with some more stamina. I was just curious what the real benefits are.
I do disagree with the "cheating on a test" analogy. If you have the answer guide for a test you *will* score a 100% on the test with almost no effort. However, if an athlete takes steroids, there is no guarantee that they will break any records. In my last question, I was simply saying that taking steroids is not like having all the answers to the test. It might be like having answers to 10 out of 100 questions on the test (to use Steve's %). The other 90 questions come from talent and hard work - I think all agree on this point more or less.
Bottomline:
1. Steroids will always raise suspicion in successful athletes even if there was no proven benefit for the player. If you are talented, please save us all the trouble and avoid steroids.
2. People just don't like Barry, steroids or not. No indictments or trials required.
My analogy was an attempt to give a reason why cheating is wrong (not why Barry using steroids is the same as someone having the answer guide). The use of the answer guide was completely arbitrary. Does this make sense?
What I am trying to say is this:
Barry, and his steroid use, presents us with a puzzle (and it is the same puzzle the teacher is faced with when he catches the student cheating): Could BARRY have broken the all time home run record if he did not take steroids. Which, I think, is what you are saying too ("steroids will always raise suspicion").
That was all I was trying to say. Oh, and I wasn't arguing with you either. In fact, I agree with you completely.
What about the other half of my post? WHo else do you think has a chance or would you like see break the record?
For me: A-rod most likely. Griffey, wish he would have. Pujols, will break A-rod's record.
Watch out for Prince Fielder (23 with 66 homers--3 years in the bigs, almost).
Rodriquez had 106 at 23 @4 years in the bigs)
Pujols had an amazing 138 at 23 @ 3 years in the bigs (that's almost not fair)
Bonds only had 41 at 23 (65 at 3 years in the bigs).
Pujols is my favorite candidate to set a new record which could last for a very looooong time!
But, it's like Hank Aaron said--it takes longevity.
p.s. Please check my math and correct me if I am wrong :)
I don't follow baseball very closely, but Bonds visited my high school when I was a senior, and was a jerk. He has my nonvote.
I too dislike Barry Bonds and I think his use of steroids to break the record was cheap. I also think that it is cheap, however, when pitchers intentionally walk players like Bonds or Rodriguez who are highly capable of hitting home runs. I don't know much about baseball, and I understand it's simply one of the strategies of the game, but I personally think that the intentional walk should be banned. It just seems like a sissy move.
(Sorry for getting kind off subject.)
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